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[Daniel]

NMaterialist’s, or Spiritualist’s? Haven’t we resolved this little conundrum by now?

Not at all, the class war is actually accelerating.
The great divide in the Middle Class grows at the rate of a malignant cancer as it rapidly falls apart.
Spirituality is becoming another elitist sport along with exclusive golf country club memberships and Aspen ski resort trips.

Instead on sitting on ones butt meditating dining on organic delights at some exclusive remote mountain resort perhaps ones spiritual efforts could be best spent feeding the homeless and unemployed who just recently lived in your neighborhood but now are homeless due to the collective greed of the top 1% of the wealth in this world. The housing meltdown is not a pretty thing.



–intolerance towards  intolerance, is still intolerance

This is true, but we didn't tolerate the Nazis either to give an extreme example. It all depends on what you resist...or do not tolerate in this world. In WWII it was called "The Resistance Movement".

I like Stevens comments. 

So, no, this is FAR from over. It never is when you are discussing money, the quickly growing class divide with one sub-culture phenomena being that of elitist spiritual activities (of course, same thing that the caste system in India has done for thousands of years. The Brahmins.)

Same exact issue as in health care or highly intelligent people not going to the best colleges because of lack of money.
Those who are sick and cannot afford health insurance end up either bankrupt or going without care.
Those creative talented geniuses not getting the support or education needed (instead we import foreigners from India and elsewhere abroad for example).

Same damn thing in essence.

Still reading Michaels link with comments forthcoming.

[Jana]

Oh, I like that disgust piece...awesome, its true. We will never be over money until we are rich enough to not need it anymore.

I think the bigger picture of the spiritual yuppie...the Boulder tights ass pretzel...is not that it is deeply narcissistic while Rome burns, but that it is BORG!

It is another face of the closing down of a culture (Naomi Wolfe)...a fundamentalist fascism with a 'successful' disguise.

However, at least people are covering their own bases and society hasn't collapse into a shanty town yet. 

[henry]

i would direct our attention toward Mathew 13:44-46, the parable of the hidden treasure and parable of pearl of great price. What do you want?  i got my NY Open center catalog today and the programs are excellent and reasonable, as they are at Omega, Esalen and Findhorn(travel and lodging can be expensive). These places are non profit and no one ever struck it rich pitching enlightenment on their Grounds ....i do have concerns with the celebrity/glam orientation of recent Secret/Oprah/Sweatlodge hysteria. At a recent integral(theory) conference, presenters were refered to as "integral rock stars" ........

[feral]

Adyashanti is great and gives away all sorts of free material.

It doesn't cost anything to look yourself full in your original face/ your true nature...but once you get sucked in by Spirit you'll find it costs everything...your whole life. Yes, Henry - that pearl of great price thingy. Not how much will it cost me, but how much am I willing to give? How much am I willing to lose? Everything? It's a high stakes wager, baby! How bad do you want to know?

The long and the short of it? Find something worthy of giving your life to - then go do it.

[Jana]

I don't see Jacque Fresco's resource based economy, or Charles Eisenstein's gift based economy working without a major evolution in human nature. It's fine if there is a sense of equable exchange derived from a deep biological sense of justice, equanimity, and fairness. But the competitive nature of exploitative materialism has left people with a deep sense of deprivation and entitlement which tends to make people into takers rather than givers. This is not so in all countries, just those most rotten with the disease processes of industrialism. With the establishment of a permaculture land management base, and experiental upbringing in advanced eco-communities we can then contemplate a moneyless economy which benefits all, at the expense of none. Hopefully once the human community is reestablish we can then live IN our spirituality, rather than wearing it and paying for it.

[henry]

also, integral life announced today a free webinar(?) series starting Sept. 12, "Beyond Awakening". Life is Good

[Nickeson]

This post is for Lawrence from way back when. If y'all have found some other train of thought in this general matter then carry on as best you can.

Well Lawrence, where ever you lurk...or did Jana call you in as a champion?  When I wrote that post I knew you would be at hand... This is going to be fun!

You wrote: On a similar vein, one could also postulate with equal validity that ‘sanctimonious posturing -against another’s sanctimonious posturing- is still sanctimonious posturing,’ no matter whom is doing the creative editorializing.

Now Lawrence, if you were handing in your post as an exercise in a class like Ethics 101 or Communication 310, I'd give you a C- only because your set-up was rhetorically so-so, ok. But your analysis failed. In the original post Jana begged to snicker at "the public." The Public is the mass of human beings, the mass of people who constitute The Other vis a vis the one who begs to snicker. Snickering at the public in the context of Jana's post is an act of bigotry because it is striking a sanctimonious posture against a broad definable category of people against whom she placed herself, without any justification,  in a superior position.

On the other hand, I only struck an antagonistic posture against the snicker, the behavior, not the person in and of themselves, but one aspect of their behavior, in much the same fashion as I will strike an antagonistic posture against the behavior of baby fucking and wife beating and child abuse and the lynching of people who have a different skin hue than those of the hangmen.

What you appear to be defending, Lawrence, is a blanket diminution of all those who fall below Jana's level of superior attainment and in so doing acquire the name of Borg...not all that different than nigger or kike or wop or gook...some designation that conveys the illusion that one is superior to, and thus has the right to snicker at and heap shit up a member or members of The Other...hey, I like that. Jana has given me the liberty to snicker at Lawrence, Lawrence the bigot's biggest chump.

[jimtzu]

Adyashanti is great and gives away all sorts of free material.

It doesn't cost anything to look yourself full in your original face/ your true nature...but once you get sucked in by Spirit you'll find it costs everything...your whole life. Yes, Henry - that pearl of great price thingy. Not how much will it cost me, but how much am I willing to give? How much am I willing to lose? Everything? It's a high stakes wager, baby! How bad do you want to know?

The long and the short of it? Find something worthy of giving your life to - then go do it.

it has been said that a teacher can't teach you anything... only show what's already inside. the key IS to look inside (your original face) and keep looking over and over. there are some people who figure this out all on their own and others that need to have this pointed out to them.  It does cost everything.. that's why most people never want to lok in the first place.

[Daniel]

In India when someone realizes God and says "I just realized I am God" they will tell you, "Congratulations, you've finally figured it out."

In the US, they look at you as if your were nuts.

In India, they will bring you fruit, flowers and support you to just be around the high vibration to learn from a new Master teacher.

In the US, you still have to pay land taxes and the electric bill. You might get lucky and get exposure on Oprah.

"In God We Trust" ensures that the rich are seen and treated as the "chosen ones" in this country.
I trust God, how could a million dollars be wrong?
I am not denying this is still the "land of opportunity". But when you really think about it,
how many people "make it" and stand apart and above from the rest of the population?
After all, its a Meritocracy system, Capitalism. Not everyone can be a millionaire.
You must have losers, its mandatory.
If everyone was a millionaire, who's going to be stuck on the assembly line to make that iPhone?
(Or even more extreme, no money at all as with the Untouchables begging in India or starving AIDS riddled children in Africa.
The iPhone assembly line is still productivity, if only at 25 cents an hour in China).

To have success, you must have failure for success to work collectively on a Global level.

[Jana]

“The importance of relaxation and internal peace in hour-to-hour, day-to-day, month-to-month, year-to-year life is an issue that cannot be overstressed. Peace is the literal clean slate platform by which the human [sonobioelectromagenetic] COBE may put to work its extended capacities…” Dominic H. Hasler, Life Physics Group, California

Our social interactions shape our brain through neuroplastic changes in the shape, size and number of neurons and their connections. Relationships also alter our hormones, receptors and influence epigenetic changes to our DNA. Once a pattern of thought, emotion and behavior becomes set, it normally continues and escalates unless we apply a conscious integral campaign to set about changing our body, mind and spirit. If we have never had emotional support or a secure base in which to process our emotions and feelings…we are going to have to learn how to do this for ourselves, manually as it were. Since chronic stress corrodes all aspects of our wellbeing, to prevent the accumulation of damage we must learn to process inner and outer toxicity related to social unconsciousness…ie: neg-power dynamics of parasitism, predation and subterfuge of all kinds.

[Jana]

"Life Physics defines a set of rules for causality or more specifically, bicausality - in a series of seven superdomains as one immense thought called the Unum. [1] This Unum is a living natural system in and of itself and within it contains the entire known Universe that is defined by modern mainstream physics. Beyond that of the known universe into the realm of ultimate causation, the conception of the seven superdomains are realized, consisting of vacuum and plenum, quantum and subquantum, and aspects of a form-design continuum as dominantly exclusive characteristics of this amazing Unum. Thus, the term Idiomaterial was conceived to characterize the unique attributes that exist as a part of these phenomena. However, Idiomaterial principles are not merely limited to the confines and functionality of the Unum but as a matter of fact - being biominds ourselves - we too are idiomaterial beings as well." Introduction to Idiomaterial Life Physics
Kurt T. Strzyzewski University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee

[Lawrence]

NMaterialist’s, or Spiritualist’s? Haven’t we resolved this little conundrum by now?

Not at all, the class war is actually accelerating.

I have to agree with you there. Actually that comment I made had less to do with the world at large, and was more a reference to those of us on this site -and many  like it- who find resonance with others that think/perceive outside of conventional norms. This would seem to be the last place one would find a throbbing, vibrant material/spiritual dual-ality.

The great divide in the Middle Class grows at the rate of a malignant cancer as it rapidly falls apart.

Dozens of studies have shown that since I entered the workforce in the early seventies, my buying power –and the majority of my fellow Americans- has been steadily decreasing year after year after year, until at present time, most of what we earn is channeled towards just simply getting by. In the sixties –it has been said more than once- the average CEO made 26 times what the average worker on the factory floor earned. Today that same CEO averages over 400 times what that same worker earns, almost forty years later.

I recall Ken Wilber –on more than a few occasions- chastising the Green Meme, Baby-Booming Liberals, and all of their faults, for civilizations failure to advance, and I keep hearing others harping about ‘spiritual folks’ caught up in their own little mind games. I don’t hear too much –actually I don’t hear anything- from these very same potential captains of integral intellectualism regarding the ‘real’ problems that plague our societies –which is this great, great divide you clearly point out.

Spirituality is becoming another elitist sport along with exclusive golf country club memberships and Aspen ski resort trips.

There is obviously some truth to this observation, but does this recognition warrant the same degree of righteous indignation as that of our current CEO/plebe dichotomy? I don’t think these examples are the same thing at all. I believe one to be the equivalent a simple personality flaw, while the other is more akin –as you pointed out- to a malignant cultural cancer run amuck.

Instead on sitting on ones ass meditating and dining on organic delights at some exclusive remote mountain resort perhaps ones spiritual efforts are now best spent feeding the homeless unemployed who just recently lived in a neighborhood just like yours but now are homeless due to the collective greed of the top 1% of the wealth in this world.

I am sure that there is a direct correlation between those who meditate, eat healthy, are politically liberal, attracted to more unconventional theologies/philosophies, environmentally aware, and those folks who consider themselves more spiritual than religious. I am also pretty sure that there is a good many of these very same people who actually do visit homeless shelters, stay informed, and are actively involved in their own local communities. A few are probably even somewhat narcissistically pleased with themselves for their efforts as well. I wouldn’t worry too much about this little indulgence. If they stay vigilant and true to themselves, this too will pass, and they will simply come to do these things simply because that is who they are.

But how many of these folks actually constitute that 1% of which you refer? Damn few I would imagine. That 1% are the worlds Materialists. They are not her Spiritualists. Mammon is their god, and narcissism is a whole new category with this crowd. And I even hate to personalize it by ascribing it to individuals per se (as in ‘crowd’), even though I know it is individuals who make up this 1%. Personalizing brings up that resistance you referenced. It is quite the paradox, or dilemma, to attempt to deconstruct a social norm while at the same time trying to avoid sweeping up individual personalities, in the exercise, who actually live by those norms. Most of us ‘spiritualists’ fail badly in this effort, if we even try.

Personally, I could care less about a harmless, ‘spiritual narcissist’ or two. They are so far down the list of what is truly pushing us into the abyss that such a triviality hardly shows up on my cultural radar screen, and it confounds me greatly that so many would waste their valuable time on metaphorical gnats when there are real, bonafide giants to be conquered instead…

I like Stevens comments.

Steven is a proud intellectual, but I believe –and I am sure he does not- that he is wasting his intellectual prowess, and diminishing his own intellect as a result, on dialectically dissecting plebs, while giving a free pass to the real villainous debauchery in the world. Such redirected efforts would make for a great intellect. Right now, I don’t see greatness, just a simple intellect. But then again -hope springs eternal…

Jana has given me the liberty to snicker at Lawrence, Lawrence the bigot's biggest chump.

Hehehe, so far that ‘spring’ seems to still be runnin’ dry…

[Jana]

Hmm, it may serve to placate immediate distress to say...go attend homeless/hopeless needs. But those kinds of behaviors merely serve to raise our own sense of holy righteousness, and do little or nothing to solve the gapping rifts in the human experiment.
Eg: I offered to teach the inner Arts to the local safehouse people...because my will to live was running dry and so I had to do that which illuminates me the most...teach my highest/funnest work. They of course didn't want me to contribute. So I will just teach one on one and make people PAY for the service. That way at least I can offer my fricking greatest gift.

The problems of violence, greed, poverty, dysfunction etc...aren't solved by addressing the fallout after the hurricane goes through. We need to work on the cause of all this...the physical, mental, moral, emotional decline of the human species...within a dysfunctional civilization itself. Awakening Sovereignty see's this problem as ubiquitous and encompassing the entirety of our human existence. We basically have to do spiritual neurosurgery on the whole human race, and as we change our way of being in the world the problems related to lack of empathy, sensitivity and morality will be overcome and we can clean up our ethical act on the planet.
Lack of sensitivity and reverence for "Life" through dampening of the Lifeforce is the cause of our sleep and our nightmare.

[Lawrence]

There is more wisdom and insight in these few, simple paragraphs then most of the mental masturbation that passes for intelligent discourse around these hallowed halls. Which is why I still keep returning after all these years. That, and the high falutin humor of course… 

[Jana]

Geez, I could do with a friend who gets it.

I am having a pissyfit over Americana at present...my disgust of the Borg and its costume jewelry is reaching epic proportions.

I take it this is some level shift within my own psyche, as I hopeful move into a more proactive mode to carve some little niche for myself that makes sense to me.

I ran out of editing energy at last...after 15 years of at-it. So I had to start running.

Fighting the destruction of the human species starts with something as simple as NOT buying pasturized almonds. Being a raw foodist, almonds were my "meat." For the past 3 years they are killed before they ever get to me. Health deteriorating...will to live zapped...I finally got around to making the commitment to buy alive Almonds from Jaffe Bros online. I at least am not going to go down with the good ship US Empire.