$piritual Growth

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[Jana]

The problem with the reptilian brain's stance of original sin and guilt until proven innocent is that it interferes with the stability of the higher prefrontal lobe-heart, thus reduces the coherence and integration of consciousness, creates systemic paranoia and manifests the negative coping mechanisms and small-brain behaviors in all exposed to such levels of operation. Effectively making a community developmentally, emotionally and mentally sick. Lower conscious energies can be contagious just as higher conscious energies can...infecting multiple generations and entire civilizations.
Only original blessing allows the "whole" human to arrive, express and function. The suspicious paranoia of the reptilian brain tends to manifest what it fears the most. This is essentially living in bad-faith or paradoxical intent rather than positive, proactive manifest being.

[henry]

confusing reptilian post Jana . the reptilian brain "stance of original sin and guilt" ?. Guilty alien reptilians ?  i agree with the prefrontal lobe/ heart connection(Pearce, Heartmath) being the key to healing coherence, as it is with conversation, community, Listening and other good stuff

[Nickeson]

Jana,

Please respect your readers enough to give your posts at least five or ten minutes of thought or research before running off at the keyboard. The "triune brain" or "reptilian brain" model has been dead in the water for at least a couple of decades.  Please see this Wikipedia entry  on the matter.  From what I have been able to gather the "reptilian brain" model is still only popular among misanthropes and militant champions of conventional wisdom, and so with the exception of yourself I know of no other regular on this site who would fit into either one of those two categories. Don't talk down to us, Jana, its not becoming of one with your intelligence.

[Daniel]

"I am afraid I can no longer accept the standard format of:  ''you used to be a military commander in a former lifetime'' kind-of-delivery,  but I could see that inherited tendencies of ancestral DNA popping up in me could make boss and organize  my surroundings with martial attitudes."

Marianthi,

    Great insight and I agree with you on the DNA/Cellular memory and reincarnation is just too way out in left field for a rational discussion (although very possible and should always be a footnote). After I was 8 my father had little to do with us, and yet I find myself being that "chip off the old block." I even look like him to a good degree and this I am afraid may have also placed me at a disadvantage in the family on an unconscious/primordial level since my father caused so much harm (the sight of me evokes memory, a type of knee jerk reaction if only unconscious).

     The traditional Western concept of Karma (which is very different than the East's ironically. We misinterpret so much, or interpret as we see fit within our Judeo/Christian model) is the ol' what came first, the chicken or the egg? We've heard the basic arguments and questions such as

'If karma is real, did the Jews deserve the holocaust?'
'Was it Lincolns and JFKs karma to get assassinated?'
'Was it the karma of the American Indians to be destroyed reduced to a shadow of their former selves and have their land taken?'

Then there always the hypothetical, "If I get robbed, was it my karma and the robber was just the angel of divine justice?"
They then go to jail and you begin to scratch your head wondering does it all make sense?

Why is one person born rich and the next one poor? After that point of course its a matter of how well we play the game of Monopoly. Some pass "Go" with millions or billions, and some penniless  and so the game is apparently...rigged (and those who have millions can lose it all of course and those penniless become millionaires). In God We Trust.

Never tell a civil rights activist that's its their karma that they are being discriminated against. you'll live with it for the rest of your life.
And most certainly lawyers do not believe in karma (or would never admit it), suing anyone would be futile. Many of them would never make a decent living.

On the other hand, everyday we all (hopefully) have some morals and ethics and know that our decisions and actions have consequences.
The Bodhisattva principle is the highest possible to live by (with the prerequisite that you are already enlightened).

Your comments on the "karma" of DNA has huge implications. Does it mean that everything we do and think is encoded  as we live life daily or are our genes just preset and no matter what we do its already set in stone?

[Jana]

THE SELF-REINFORCING FEEDBACK LOOP OF THE MIRRORED UNIVERSE
The amygdala and the reptilian brain is weary and predictive of danger. So when our prefrontal lobe modulation of these lower brain structures is underdeveloped or overridden we tend to operate from a fear and deprivation mode. We feel like there is something wrong and so we find ourselves doing something for assurance and insurance. In the mirrored universe the distress signals we put out are reflected right back to us from our environment and others, which in turn confirms and reinforces ou fears.

Applied sovereignty is the only technology that will bring about eternal peace, therefore everything else is always already obsolete. If your ego uses sovereignty practice to try and gain advantage over others you are likely to just screw yourself. Thus sovereign play needs to be undertaken with the desire to free yourself and all others from the repressive forces of dehumanization.

The mirrored universe is a lot of fun once you get the hang of it. After a while the phenomena of reciprocity becomes conscious and we realize that our projections onto and our perceptions of the world are reflections of our own internal state and developmental phase. If we are having a hard time tolerating our social environment this may be some level shift within our own psyche, toward a more proactive mode in carving some evolutionary niche for ourselves that makes sense to us. Spiritual Bypassing is perhaps just a form of integral imbalance. One could say the entire human race is spiritually bypassed by neglecting the development of the prefrontal lobe-Heart connection. When we fail to use the latest technology for self-regulation that nature has given us, the more primitive circuitry comes online and exerts its will.

[Daniel]

This an example of why I do not agree with the traditional concepts of karma, it's way too cruel.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/06/austria.natascha.kampusch.autobiography/index.html?hpt=C2

[Jana]

Karma is too dangerous an idea and too easily misused by the human baboons, that it really should be outlawed as a concept or at least given an inquisition and hanging. PTSD basically is the humane version of the idea, and now with modern neuroscience we have an opportunity to stand by and support those who have been victimized by the sick and the violent.

http://www.ganas.org/  —Ganas started on Staten Island in 1979. NY conscious community (good rules). Rules that promote justice and maturity and allow the sovereignty of the individual to flourish are vitally important to develop right now, as we move from the delinquent culture over to the conscious community.

Josiah Warren and the Sovereignty of the Individual*
In "New Social Arrangements" (1840) Josiah Warren insisted that our own happiness depends upon a proper respect for the happiness of others and that therefore we should not make social arrangements which require compulsion or the violation of the natural freedom of any individual. Warren claimed.' The great mistake of all society is the compromise or surrender of the sovereignty of the individual. This must not be. Society must be remodelled without this surrender. The sovereignty of each individual over his own person and property in all cases was the great idea that must work out the problem of happiness. This was the keystone of Warren's thought.

Each person has the right of defining individual liberty insofar as it pertains to his or her time and labor. Each and every individual should be his or her own executive, unconnected with the executive power of any other. "Each may differ from each." Consequently, Warren insisted that society must not lay down any forms of words whatsoever with the idea of enforcing conformity of opinion. "This is the great fundamental error of all organizations of society." Humans must not surrender even a portion of their natural liberty in response to the word equality.

Individual sovereignty is a right because we have no power to make ourselves like other persons. Warren believed that "the sights, sounds, tastes, and smells, together with the external and internal feelings which each has experienced, constitute the world."  These were collected differently and combined differently in each individual. Therefore, each individual was a world by himself or herself and should, "like the different planets of the universe, have his and her sphere to move in sufficiently distinct from others as to be able to pass through life without coming in collision-with each other."" Individuals may approach each other in society as each chooses to do so, but they must maintain the liberty to be different. "Where the sovereignty of every one is respected, no one can offend another by any of his applications of it."

Disintegration of society was necessary, until each person became responsible for himself individually. Then there would be no connected interests. Each person would become his own regulator with "no prescription for others against their choice of laws, rules, regulations, religions, morals, politics, ethics, manners, dress, etiquette modes, fashions, subordination, or in any other manner whatsoever." This, according to Warren, would lead to the most perfect social order ever seen.

[Daniel]

Ken Wilbers comments from "Integral Politics" talk:

"In one sense Buddha was the ultimate Republican because everything that happens to you is your karma."

I guess that would tie into $piritual Growth as well.

Well, then I question the Buddha, sorry. I don't agree with that.
It's a very different world than when you lived and there's a huge amount of manipulation and crap going on a Global level
that you never dreamed of, and the worlds population is slightly larger than when you were alive.

Saw a TED talk from India (sorry, no time to link it at the moment) and the speaker said
"I don't agree with Maslows Hierarchy, anyone in the pyramid of needs can become enlightened"

[Jana]

"I don't agree with Maslows Hierarchy, anyone in the pyramid of needs can become enlightened"


True but the kicker is effectiveness...that is manifesting ones enlightenment in the world tends to be undermined by unstable, collapsing or diseased rungs on the lower aspects of the pyramid. Something as simple as Omega 3 deficiency will collapse the entire pyramid.

[Francis]

It's a good point: enlightenment and neediness are mutually exclusive states of consciousness. The needy are not enlightened and the enlightened are not needy. I think Maslow is saying that the way out of neediness is by going through it, that is, by satisfying the needs in stepwise fashion until they are all met. On the other hand, the renunciate attacks neediness directly and denies the concept of needs. A high road and a low road, as it were, but with the same destination.

[Jana]

• Redundant Renunciation—Be careful with the notion of renunciation...it is very likely just cop out. For example I am massively touch deprived which makes me touch adverse...but avoiding touch or not seeking it doesn't solve the condition and allow for evolution...growth is thus suspended through avoidance of the entire relationship deal, touch being just the base note. Fact is there are some basic needs for life's full flourishing which we can cultivate in a healthy fashion, pervert, use, abuse, abort or ignore. Humans have all the animal needs and a whole bunch more in order to be fulfilled. Asceticism is often a form of chemical addiction of the opiates produced in the body through massive self-neglect or self-abuse. Healthy fasting, exertion, exposure, sensory deprivation, or abstinence is just as important as epicurean satiety of the senses, but it too is undertaken in a self-loving fashion rather than self-abusive.


Stress severely contracts the biomind's entrainment upon the vacuum and Unum. It is somewhat paradoxical that the more one tries, the less one can accomplish, the less one tries, the more one can accomplish. The Zen mindset, the Taoist perspective, etc are all useful in this regard. We must train our biominds to adopt habits of thinking, emoting and internal representation that support relaxation, not stress. Relinquishment of the ego-knot is a necessity. Identity and personality are not destroyed in this process, as to do so requires bodily death. Instead, the basis of our action in the world, including our thoughts and emotions as reactions to life conditions and as causally vectored intention manifestants, transforms from a chronic belief in the actual separated individuation of One-Self as an entity who stops and starts at the body and mind, to something much more dilated, expansive and all-encompassing. All new age and "spiritual" idealisms aside, this is a most useful psychophysiologic configuration to adopt in a purely ecologic sense - anything else is wasteful and illogical, electrogravitically speaking.
THE IMPORTANCE OF RELAXATION IN THE SONOBIOELECTROMAGNETIC LIFE OF A HUMAN COBE

Dominic H. Hasler*
Life Physics Group – California

[Lawrence]

Ken Wilbers comments from "Integral Politics" talk:

"In one sense Buddha was the ultimate Republican because everything that happens to you is your karma."

I guess that would tie into $piritual Growth as well.

Well, then I question the Buddha, sorry. I don't agree with that.

... Since it was actually Ken Wilber who made that assertion, shouldn't it be Ken Wilber that you question, rather than the Buddha?...

   I remember the title of a particular thread on the old Integral Forum a few odd years ago; "Is Ken Wilber a Neo-Con? (as in neo-conservative)" With statements like that, it''s easy to see why the question has to even be asked in the first place...

[Jana]

Republicianism is anti-republic...and America does reverse reality better than country in history I think. Republicianism is for the rich and those who suck up to and fuck the rich. Ken was trying to be funny, but the statement more-rather acts like a zen koan revealing the hopeless bind of our current perverse human condition.

[Daniel]

To be fair, in that talk Wilber also stated that Buddha also "bucked" the Indian caste system by accepting untouchables as equals for example and so exemplified the Democratic "green meme" side of the American political system. He was discussing the "internality" of the Republicans and the "externality" of the Democrats as one way in which these two values navigate themselves in the world.

In further response to karma, another issue for those who buy into it is, where do you draw the line? Is it the blacks karma to be discriminated against by the whites and the anglo-saxon power structure, or the Jews karma for being gassed by the millions by the Nazis? Or, they surely must be innocent victims.

Collective karma is in reality a mass level victim hood? Then it must be that what ever an individual suffers is their karma.
In that case, if I'm being discriminated against because I'm black , then its not my karma due to the history of slavery.
BUT, if I get robbed, then it IS my karma?

So where you draw the line? Is it all karma...or none of it?
Or worse, some it karma and some of it not?
And if that's the case, who are the wise ones to decide? The Supreme Court? 

Karma is grossly misinterpreted by Westerners.

[Francis]

I think Stuart Wilde does a good job explaining the subtlties of karma. Try this:

Quote:

"Avoiding the Collective Karma
By Stuart Wilde


Your waking intellect (your personality) brings to you an instant karma. For example, if you are diligent and responsible, life tends to treat you the same way. If you're uncaring and irresponsible, you pull to you all sorts that will treat you erratically and let you down. If you are out of control emotionally and inattentive, you slip off the sidewalk and sprain your ankle; if you stay in control and focused, you complete your journeys without incident.

If you are generous, people treat you warmly, if you are mean, life treats you more harshly. Your waking intellect bends reality to suit your personality. So quite naturally, you see and comprehend life and events as you want to see them, so you may not realize you are hard on people, and yet you may wonder why life is hard on you. Karma is hidden. It doesn't usually offer explanations. You have to work things out looking inside yourself.

Beyond the intellect is your subconscious. Very few have much idea what their subconscious mind is or what information it contains. You will see it talking to you in your dreams, but it may offer you such an incoherent hotchpotch of images and feelings, you haven't much idea what it is saying.

The subconscious mind is more the 'real' you, as it doesn't have the fake concoction of the waking intellect, it just accepts your feeling and ideas and impulses, without the ability to alter them. Simply put you could say, beyond denial is the subconscious. It is the perpetual memory of everything that you are and all your innermost feelings. It's your raw self.

Your intellect ceases, when your brain stops functioning at death. But I believe your subconscious lives on in a mirror-world dimension, a parallel world that is placed opposite to this one, right is left in the world of the subconscious mind. In effect, the subconscious is what we call 'the soul'.

Jung discovered much about the collective unconscious. He said we are all linked by the same archetypes and symbols: mother, father, life, death, etc. I think Jung was right. We are all one-mind, and while you have your own karma, which is fairly instant, derived from balance and imbalance, you are also linked to a more distant 'collective karma' of your society or nation, and that is linked into an even more distant global karma.

Deep in the subconscious are your archetypal feelings and impulses: love, hate, equanimity, arrogance, each is a defined compartment; you could say each is a dimension of its own—birds of a feather flock together in the subconscious realms. You drift into that part of the mirror-world that is comfortable for you. Where you go, your long-term karma goes with you, for your subconscious mind can pull to you a long-term individual karma many years in the becoming, as well as a more distant collective karma that belong to you as well as many others.

Your instant karma you can easily change by taking charge of your life and being more practical and living a healthier lifestyle, but your long-term collective karma is more trapping. You can't escape that as easily, unless you make moves very early on. For example, if you were a carpenter in Nagasaki in the 1940s, you had your daily instant karma, keeping your family fed say, but unbeknown to you, a collective karma approached. If you were aware of your subconscious and that of people around you, you would have left Nagasaki, and many thousands probably did. Others traveled there the day before the bomb. They came to join the collective unconscious department that accommodates for 200,000 incinerations in one day.

The trick to understanding the collective karma is to listen to what people are saying about their feelings and to watch their innermost impulses. If you watch the news you'll see the national-ego running rampant. It's all arrogance, disdain and self-interest. So you can see where the national karma might be headed. The trick is to uncouple from the collective feelings and try to discover who you really are? Do you agree with ideals being expressed or do you differ? What are your innermost feelings and impulses? You may discover that you like the shared impulses you see on the news, and if you do, you will have to accept the collective fate that that might create. The problem is you don't know exactly where the collective fate will end up. Is it Nagasaki or Nirvana?

Here is an example on how the long-term karma of America is to go bankrupt. Americans consume more than the planet can provide, eventually the supply and demand lines will creek and fall apart. If you were a citizen hoping to avoid his or her karma, you would consume less and make your ego's needs less demanding, so you could easily handle a sudden down-turn. If you were sophisticated at karma avoidance, you'd be thinking Nagasaki-style, and you'd plan a move to safety.

America, realizing she would run out of oil, went to war to capture supply lines and resources belonging to others. The long-term karma of that is she will have no oil at all. It will be taken from her. In the subconscious, you can see it quite obviously. So karma avoidance would be to get rid of the gas-guzzler, while you still can and downsize to a small car or even a scooter or moped.

It is part of the British collective mind-set to be right, people are endlessly arguing, sustaining their need to be right. In Britain, it is very much more important to be right, than to be nice. So people are rather nasty to each other, while pretending to be right, and so its long-term karma is to be found to be terribly wrong. In the olden days, honor and a gentleman's or gentlewoman's code of conduct was what held up the edifice of British life, but now that code is lacking. So the country will rot and falter.

The trick to being British is to agree to be wrong and make changes now. If you go down the path of righteous-indignation, you will fall as the country falls. The British feel they are very superior, so their long-term karma is to become inferior. They will lose their economic status. If you don't feel you are superior or right, and if status doesn't bother you, the nation's karma won't bother you at all. The French think they are important, so their long-term destiny is to be become irrelevant, funny eh?

Each of us has the option of going with the collective karma of our people, or you can vote "No" and walk in the other direction, but you have to make a move soon, as a 'collective karma' is the most trapping and the least easy to escape from. That is because people don't see it coming, because it is the result of a 'collective idea' that everyone agrees to, so that makes it seem right.

If you're very reliant on others, you are linked to their karma. The more you become self-sufficient and self-reliant, the more you are in your own karma, and the easier life is to control. If you can't make major changes, make small ones.

© Stuart Wilde 2007,2009 - www.stuartwildeblog.com